In this episode we discuss the root causes of sex trafficking, systemic challenges, and what parents can look out for.
In This Episode You'll Learn
- What trafficking really looks like
- How to start the conversation with our kids
- Community action tips
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Transcript
Meg Brunson
Hey, hey. FamilyPreneurs, thank you for joining me again for another episode. Today's episode, we are talking about something very serious. We're talking about safety. We're talking about family. We are talking specifically about sex trafficking. The root cause causes, systemic challenges, and what we as parents can look for. I'm really excited to have Krystal Snider here with us today. Krystal has over ten years of experience working in the nonprofit field for feminist agencies.
Meg Brunson
She specializes in supporting agencies working with those who have experienced gender based violence and with particular. Okay, read that again. Sorry.
Meg Brunson
She specializes in supporting agencies working with those who have experienced gender based violence with particular expertise in human trafficking. As a survivor herself of human trafficking, coupled with her years of experience in the field, Krystal has led a variety of community development responses to identify, support, and build systemic capacity to reduce barriers to accessing services. Krystal uses trauma-informed, intersectional, anti-oppressive, and human rights based approaches. I have connected with Krystal in the past, and we kind of talked about this topic and these issues off, like not being recorded. And I instantly knew I wanted to reconnect record the conversation and share it with everybody.
Meg Brunson
It's been probably a year. We determined. So I'm sure a lot of what we talk about has faded into the background. And I'm excited to have this conversation with you again. Krystal, thank you so much for being here today.
Krystal Snider
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so jazzed to see you and to be here and have this conversation.
Meg Brunson
And I want to start with just kind of defining what human trafficking, what sex trafficking even. What does those terms actually mean? Because I know for me, I had a totally distorted perception of what it meant to be trafficked. So can we start with that basic definition?
Krystal Snider
So I think in different countries have different kind of legal definitions, but the most broadly used definition is a United Nations. And essentially trafficking is about how we recruit somebody or how we bring somebody in, how we make them stay in order to exploit them for money. So we see that happen with labor. We see that happen with organs, domestic servitude, which is people who are live-in nannies get exploited and trafficked. But my expertise and my lived experience is in sex trafficking. So fundamentally, people think when we look at definitions of human trafficking, I often get asked, like, how far do you have to be moved? Like, do you have to go across the border and then be sold for sex, or do you have to go across a state or province? I think a lot of people think it's about the movement of humans and that sometimes can be smuggling, human smuggling. But with human trafficking, it's about how we restrict somebody's movement rather than how far they move. So you could be sex trafficked in the same house for years in the same place. It's not necessarily about movement, but rather how come your movements are restricted in which ways?
Meg Brunson
And that's definitely an area. I was confused when I hear traffic. I think movement. So I imagine people getting kidnapped, thrown in the back of a van and being taken away to be exploited in that way. But that's not actually the case, right?
Krystal Snider
Yeah, so it is, and it isn't. I've certainly seen cases of somebody put in a trunk and driven to another province. I'm up in Canada. So to another province and then forced into the sex trade. I've definitely had those cases. I've seen those cases. We see that movement happen with forced migration and then people being trafficked or exploited. So we do see it happen across borders, but particularly here in Canada. And I would assume similarly for the States, what we actually see is what's called domestic trafficking, which means you were born in Canada or you landed in Canada and you were trafficked while here. You weren't trafficked coming here. That wasn't the idea. And the stat in Canada is that 90% of people who are trafficked, sex trafficked, are Canadian born or have Canadian residency. So it's the majority of what we see. The caveat to that is to say if you don't have documentation, if you are undocumented or precarious in your status, you're not calling police. So we're not tracking the data.
Meg Brunson
That makes sense, unfortunately. So do you have insights on who the perpetrators typically are of these cases? Because, again, I'm going back to stereotypes. Right. Where we think of gangs, we think of here in the States, at least there's a lot of bias, internal bias against immigrants, especially undocumented immigrants, especially Brown immigrants. And so we have this painting of what the bad guys would/should look like. And I know that's not always the case. So what is a typical perpetrator look like and how is their relationship typically to the victim?
Krystal Snider
Yeah, those are really great questions, and I think my thoughts are a couple of things. So one is that Canada is not immune from its racism. We just tend to be politer about it. And so it's similar here in Canada. The way that we show traffickers in media, if it is a Brown or black body, it's particularly a male, is very different than when it's a white doctor who has been trafficking somebody. So I'm mindful of that. And just before we kind of got on, we talked about here in Canada, we have this idea of what is a perfect victim. And a perfect victim is trafficked by somebody who's involved in organized crime, somebody who's part of a gang or somebody who has immigrated or migrated to Canada. And that happens. That does happen. Organized crime does play a role in human trafficking, but that's not exclusively what happens. And I think the problem becomes when we only talk about young white women in hotels, we miss a lot of other cases of human trafficking. And so what I always tend to tell people is like, nobody can pick a trafficker out of a room.
Krystal Snider
You can't go into a room of 200 people and say, oh, that guy is a trafficker. The only folks that I know that can do that are survivors. And that's because survivors have built up this innate alarm inside of them to be able to say there's something not right about this. We just had an RCMP officer in Ontario charge this week. Sorry. This month with human trafficking, that was a labor trafficking-
Meg Brunson
I'm sorry, can you define what that stands for?
Krystal Snider
Yeah, sorry. It's the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. It would be similar to the FBI almost. There are our federal agency. I know. I appreciate that. I appreciate that reminder. Yeah. I think in terms of what it might look like in the States, it would be similar to the FBI in that they have federal jurisdiction.
Meg Brunson
Okay. Thank you.
Krystal Snider
Yeah, no, I appreciate that. So we had an officer and a police officer charged. Doctors have been charged. It can be anybody. And one huge area that we don't talk about is intergenerational or familial trafficking, which was parents trafficking children because their grandparents trafficked them. And when I think about kind of in Canada and definitely in the States, trafficking isn't a phenomenon. Right. So in Canada, for example, we had slavery. And then when slavery was, quote, unquote, abolished, we had residential schools where Indigenous people were sent. 51% of people in Canada that are trafficked are Indigenous women and girls, and they're only 4% of the population. And that isn't because of the phenomenon. It's because you stole kids from their homes, abuse them, they could not leave. To exploit their land. It's a legacy that we have in our country.
Meg Brunson
They almost are no words. Right. And so when you talked about the perfect victim, those women and girls would be included in that. And is the reason you call it the perfect victim? Because how do I say it? Because they're not the white girls that people picture. It's harder to get media coverage. It's easier to get away with it. Is that what you mean by that? And maybe you could say that in a better way than I'm trying to put it together.
Krystal Snider
Yeah, it's a really good question. So when I think of what the perfect victim looks like in Canada, it is young white women in hotels. And so the opposite to that would be anybody who doesn't need that. And the reason for that is because people aren't looking then or they're not paying attention. Right. So we have all of this money invested in programming and support for human trafficking. It doesn't support everybody. It's not accessible. It's not culturally relevant. And so those folks get left. And we know that even in human trafficking, folks who are racialized often experience increased violence, more so than other folks, they're asked to do worse, more violent acts with less protection. And so that all play- that racism plays out there as well.
Meg Brunson
I feel like we've kind of outlined what trafficking is and clearly the severity of it and the importance and increasing our awareness. What role do we play as parents in empowering ourselves to not be victims? Empowering our kids to not be victims? And maybe there should be a separate question, but what can we do to help identify people who may need our help, like our kids friends or something like that, or even find out if our kids are already in danger? I don't know. I know that's like 50 questions, but that's where my brain goes talking about this topic.
Krystal Snider
They're all very good questions, and I think all have a similar answer. So the way that trafficking operates, the way that traffickers find people to traffic is they look for vulnerabilities. Right. So they're looking for unmet needs. This can be housing. It can be very practical needs, like food, shelter, those kinds of things. So those folks would be the folks that would be most at risk. But a lot of people don't realize that our unmet emotional needs, our emotional needs in general, are just as primal to have met as your physical needs. I often give this example of pizza. So, like, if you were starving to death, you haven't eaten anything in ten days and there was like a nasty piece of pizza on the ground, would you eat it?
Meg Brunson
I'd like to say no, but if I'm that hungry and that starving, probably, yeah.
Krystal Snider
And the truth is, you would eat it. Every single person would, because you're not thinking with the thinking part of your brain. You're in a survival mode, right. So every single person after ten days is going to eat the gross piece of pizza, and it's going to taste like the best thing you ever had. And when we have unmet emotional needs, like the need to be loved and validated and cared for and feel well, that is survival brain. So you take whatever you can get and it feels like the best thing you ever had. So what I mean in terms of a prevention, I guess, or what parents can do is to be mindful that those emotional needs are just as primal. It doesn't mean we're going to meet all of them. And that's okay. But how do we help to teach our kids to meet their own or where else they can get it safely? And being mindful about that connection, fundamentally, traffickers will poke holes to find out who doesn't have a good relationship with their parents, who maybe had some early childhood violence in their household, who doesn't feel like they have, well self esteem.
Krystal Snider
And just by being born a female, really, in Western culture, you're vulnerable because at 13, our self esteem takes a dip. We're starting to read messages in the world around us. Our body image takes a huge shot. Traffickers know that, and they capitalize on those vulnerabilities. So the best prevention that we as parents can have is connection with our children conversations.
Krystal Snider
Sorry, go ahead.
Meg Brunson
No, go ahead.
Krystal Snider
I was going to say
Krystal Snider
I think most kids want to have this conversation. I was just out of presentation two weeks ago, and the sexual assault center that was there had done a survey with 40 kids and said, who's your number one influence, 40 teenagers. And the number one influence in 40 teenagers lives was their parents.
Meg Brunson
So we're in good positions.
Krystal Snider
That's it. We are the best. We are in the best position.
Meg Brunson
Now, do you have a recommendation, like how do we actually start this conversation? I can already tell you, if I sit my 14 year old down and tell her I want to talk about either exploitation, which is going to be like really big for her, or if I want to talk about our feelings, I am going to get like a huge eye roll and she is not paying attention. How do we approach these conversations in a way that's going to actually tap into our kids?
Krystal Snider
Yeah, I think one really great position that we have right now is social media and is the time that we all spend on the Internet. And so I think that's a really great place to start. I think asking kids what they already know about- how do they already keep themselves safe online is just positioning from tell me what you already know and how you already do it. And then if we need to tweak some things, we can. So I think that's always a great way to start. It's just like, "have you ever had a random person show up in your DMs? Like, what do you do with that?"
Meg Brunson
And we didn't even we started off talking about local in real life examples. We haven't even tapped into the possibilities and the dangers of social media and the digital world.
Krystal Snider
Yeah, I think that's probably the number one place where traffickers recruit. During Covid here in Canada, online recruitment increased by 44%. That's a huge amount. So the data is terrifying. But I always want to remind parents, like, you have these skills to talk to your kids about it, and it's important. And they're already very smart. They're already smarter than we are when it comes to online. So really, you're just curious around. Well, what do you know? And I also think with these discussions, they are not one offs. They're not the sit down birds and bees talk. These are ongoing. Can you tell me more about that or what happens if this, conversations rather than like you said, I really want to talk to you about sexual exploitation today. I think there's a lead up to that. There's a really great video that's called "I Am Little Red." It costs about $30 to purchase online. There may be a cheaper one. I have the educator's license. Anyway, it's an eleven minute cartoon video about human trafficking. And it was made for grade seven, eight, and up. It's a really cool video. So if parents have the access and the finances to be able to purchase the download, it's a really cool tool to use.
Meg Brunson
Awesome. We can definitely look for a link and put that in the show notes, too. So people have that. It would be nice if they made it more affordable. That's the other piece, right. When we're talking about vulnerabilities, socioeconomic status is going to be a big one. And I think a lot of the families who really could benefit from that aren't going to be able to afford that.
Krystal Snider
There are some other really great resources. If you're in Canada, the Canadian Center to End Human Trafficking as a resource. If you're in the States, Polaris is a national hotline for human trafficking. So if you're ever like, unsure if somebody's being trafficked or you think there's a kid that's at risk, you can always call them and they'll hook you up with services. And that's a free service.
Meg Brunson
Do you know if that's different or similar? I know growing up, I always knew about the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. Or is that just for kids, where Polaris might be for all people?
Krystal Snider
Yeah, exactly. And Missing and Exploited Children isn't necessarily exclusively trafficking. Polaris is exclusively a trafficking hotline. And yes, not age dependent.
Meg Brunson
Again, good to know, learning all of these lessons. So I think that the biggest takeaways that we've talked about so far, especially when it comes to prevention in our children, is having those conversations and also just doing what we can to make sure that they're emotionally what's the word I'm looking for fulfilled and that they understand online safety. Cause I think you're right. Like, knowing my kids, I feel like in person, I almost feel like they're safer in person than they are online. And it sounds like statistics may also back that up, even though people still get afraid of like, kids getting yanked off a playground or something.
Krystal Snider
Yeah. It's a really challenging time. And online right now, kids are so vulnerable online, because kids are just so I don't know the word that I'm looking for. Trusting. Right. You mean online friends-
Meg Brunson
Naive
Krystal Snider
Yeah, naive, right. And that's very much the world. I just had my son's 10th birthday and I invited kids that he's only ever been with online. Like they're kids from our city, but he's never met them in person. And they came to his party and I was like, this is what we're dealing with here. Right. So having some really strict rules and agreements around how we interact online is important in our house, obviously, I don't want to shut them down. I want to create a space where they can come forward when something has happened. But we do have expectations around, if you are sharing this information, then this is kind of the consequence for that. And for me, anyway, I feel grateful that that's worked for both of my kids. My daughter was lured over the summer, pretty intensely lured. And any 15 year old, I think she knows probably more than most about human trafficking, but it happened. She was in isolation.
Krystal Snider
Somebody was doing a horrible thing being a horrible person, and that happens. And I'm grateful that she was able to come to me when it got to be too much that she felt she couldn't handle it. But it is a scary time online.
Meg Brunson
Oh, man. And it shares- and I think another piece just for me, my background is obviously in social media marketing. I say obviously- for people who've been listening for a while, having a basic understanding of the platforms that your kids are using is also huge. And even then, people make mistakes. Snapchat is one where you can turn on location tracking so that your friends can see where you are. And I'm sure there's some margin of error, as we know with most tracking things, but they're still scary close for virtual strangers to be able to track where you are as a child. As a teen.
Krystal Snider
I think to a whole other probably podcast episode. But is corporate responsibility. Right. Like, social media platforms know that they create pathways and that they financially benefit off the exploitation of humans and the sale of children, and they continuously do not make changes.
Meg Brunson
Yeah.
Krystal Snider
So there's a huge corporate responsibility when it comes to the online world that doesn't get dissolved without lawsuits. And lawsuits can only happen if you have access to lawsuits.
Meg Brunson
Right. So can I touch on? I don't think we touched on this. One of my questions I asked with the million questions- is what can we look for in other kids? Or while we're in our community to look for warning signs that somebody else may be at risk, and then how can we help those people?
Krystal Snider
For sure. So in trafficking, kind of when it happens in person, might look like and it can happen online, too. But early on, when a trafficker is trying to find out who's kind of going to bite what I'm giving out there and who might be open to a relationship. Because most survivors that I've worked with, the trafficker has been somebody they knew. And for many people, they thought it was a boyfriend or a girlfriend or partner, because traffickers work to develop a relationship. If they were to just take you in a trunk and drive you across, you're going to leave quicker than if you think this person really loves you. So early on in that grooming stage would be talking to a new person that they're not bringing around or talking about a new person that they're not bringing around. Maybe they're receiving gifts that they otherwise wouldn't have access to. This could be another phone. This could be getting their nails and their hair done. It could be new purses, new clothing. It could be providing drugs, providing rent, providing food. So just all of a sudden these needs are getting met and these gifts are kind of happening.
Krystal Snider
We do see it happen on games like Fortnite, where gifts are given to children from other players, and then it moves offline into something like discord or private chat.
Meg Brunson
Interesting.
Krystal Snider
Yeah. So it really is about like, hey, look, I'm going to take care of you. You deserve this. And then you feel really great because you don't have those things. And this person really is thoughtful and cares about you. Right. So early on, that's what you would see a lot of intense relationship very quickly, very early, possibly some gifts, but they won't really bring them around. Maybe they have a street name is what I would say. A name that maybe isn't their given name that they're going by. Those would be early things to look at. And in terms of what we do as parents, it's having those conversations around the safety of that and the concerns that you have there. I always say to parents, like, if your parents told you don't hang out with this person, what would you do?
Meg Brunson
Ignore them.
Krystal Snider
You're going to hang out and you're going to lie about it. You're going to start lying about it. Right. So it's not to say that I don't want us to be cautious and open with our kids, but what we don't want to do is create a shutdown. Right. We can say I'm concerned. If this changes, if this really great, good feeling goes away because something happens, then what does that look like? Those kinds of things. So that would be early. And then there are some phases. There's about five phases of trafficking. The middle phase is kind of where traffickers will start to withdraw attention from the person and stop buying gifts or start being mad at them. And then this person's like, oh, my God, I want to feel good. I'll do anything to make you happy kind of feeling. Right. So traffickers at that stage will push boundaries. So here you might see an increase in anxiety, an increase in isolation or withdrawing. I'm really focusing on this one person. You know, maybe they're not sleeping well. Maybe they are missing curfew. Often those kinds of things might be things that you want to look for.
Krystal Snider
And that's a place where you really want to start safety planning and possibly involve some help if it's somebody under. I think in the States, your roles are 18, ours are 16. So you want to try and call whoever you can call to support at that point.
Krystal Snider
And then in the last phase, if somebody is actively being trafficked, what you'll often see is somebody who maybe looks malnourished. Food is often controlled by traffickers. They may have signs of abuse, typically not on the face, but on the body. Maybe they have what's called branding, which is a tattoo or similar tattoos, multiple girls, which really labels you as property of a pimp. Maybe you don't have access to your own identification. You're not calling home anymore. You are gone missing at that point or soon to be. Drug use would increase at that point as well if they're not already using drugs. And I would say mental health symptoms that are extreme, like just this energy of desperation, but non-compliance, if that makes sense. Not wanting to connect with family or listening, that's typically what it does.
Meg Brunson
I really appreciate that you broke down those different levels, the different stages, Because I think it helps us to understand what it might look like.
Meg Brunson
Like what it typically looks like. But then also I feel like you just altered have to trust your gut Because it may look different, right. I hope there's not like a handbook on how to traffic. People are going to-
Krystal Snider
Steve Harvey wrote a book about how to pimp girls.
Meg Brunson
For real. Well, that's a whole other issue, but I appreciate you breaking out those levels and just having this conversation today, I hope opens the eyes, opens the minds of other parents and especially parent entrepreneurs. We're busy and it's really easy to get distracted by our work and realize that maybe we're not spending as much time with our kids or our family as we intended to and just have to pull ourselves back into that role and have these conversations. And I'm going to put all the links that you mentioned in the show notes. If people want to reach out to you, Is there a way for people to connect with you and ask more questions?
Krystal Snider
Yeah, for sure. So my email and phone number contact is on my website, which is CollaborativeCommunitySolutions.ca. I have Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn - so totally people can shoot me a message or give me a ring if they have some questions or thoughts.
Meg Brunson
Awesome. Well, I want to thank you so much for taking time out of your schedule, for talking about such a heavy yet important topic, for answering my millions of questions as my brain kind of spirals, Because I feel like this is a legit present danger that we're all facing and maybe not even be aware that we're facing it, and it's scary. So I appreciate all the insight that you've brought for us today.
Krystal Snider
Thank you so much and thanks for having me. I really appreciate any opportunity to help parents learn more.
Meg Brunson
Of course.