When our children do (often age-appropriate!) things that drive us up the wall, our instinctive reaction is often to MAKE IT STOP! But the real reason we feel triggered by our child's behavior is not the thing they're doing; it's because of trauma we've experienced ourselves. In this episode we'll learn how we can understand and heal from that trauma, so we can show up in relationships with our children in a way that's aligned with our values.
In This Episode You'll Learn
- Why we have such a hard time when our children misbehave.
- Some of the most common ways that overwhelmed parents react to their children’s behavior.
- How intergenerational trauma affects our relationships with our children.
- Tools you can use to respond to your child’s behavior, instead of reacting.
- How to repair a relationship with your child after you’ve reacted in a way that isn’t aligned with your values.
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Transcript
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Meg Brunson
Hey there, FamilyPreneurs. I'm excited to be here today with Jen Lumanlan. Jen holds a master's degree in psychology and child development and a master's in education. She hosts the Your Parenting Mojo podcast, which is a reference guide for parents of children aged between toddler and preschool years based on scientific research and the principles of respectful parenting. In each episode, she examines a topic related to parenting and child development from all sides to help parents understand how to make decisions about raising their children. She lives in California with her husband and daughter. And today we are going to talk about Taming your triggers. Taming our Triggers as parents with Jen Lumanlan. Jen, thank you so much for being here today. I cannot wait to chat about this topic with you.
Jen Lumanlan
Thanks for having me, Meg. I should point out that while most of the parents I work with have children on the younger end, the ideas we're going to talk about together today are relevant, really, no matter what age your child is, even if your child is grown and flown.
Meg Brunson
Grown and flown. I like that. Well, I think let's first talk about triggers. Why, as parents- why are we triggered so much by our kids? Why do we have such a hard time when our kids "misbehave?" I'm putting in quotes.
Jen Lumanlan
Yeah. The old air quotes. Yeah. I think it's really tempting for us parents to see our children's behavior as the problem, because that's kind of the culture we grew up in. Right. That's what we were taught when we were kids, is that if our parent is disapproving of us in some way, then it's our fault. It's our behavior that needed to change. And so that's sort of the model that we grew up in. And so, in a way, it's natural for us to think, Well, I'm having these big reactions to my child's behavior. Clearly, there's something wrong with my child's behavior. I've been on Earth for a long time now. I was doing fine. I wasn't exploding all the time and having these big reactions until my child came along. My child is here, and now I'm having these big reactions. And so clearly, if my child would just stop doing this thing that pushes my buttons, then I wouldn't need to have these big reactions. Right. So it's sort of built into the way that we were raised. And it turns out that changing our child's behavior is firstly difficult because who likes to have their behavior changed, right.
Jen Lumanlan
Nobody likes to try and have their behavior changed by somebody else. And then secondly, it's actually not super effective because it turns out that the real reason why we feel triggered has nothing to do with our child's behavior. And it has everything to do with things that we experienced, either in terms of things that happen to us as children and our relationships with our parents, our caregivers, or, frankly, ongoing trauma that's happening right now. With all of the stuff that's happening in the world with the pandemic, which seemed as though we were going to be able to make it through a short stretch and then a bit longer stretch and then a bit longer stretch. And now we're looking at the point where it's like, is there an end? And all of a sudden it just feels so incredibly deflating and defeating. And so we're trying to navigate this at the same time as our children are still doing all the age appropriate stuff that children do.
Meg Brunson
Basically, we're overwhelmed in dealing with all of our own mess, whatever that is, stresses and things like that. And so our kids being typical kids is stressing us out, is triggering us and causing that reaction.
Jen Lumanlan
Yes. And particularly when our children do something that touches something that was traumatic for us. So maybe our parents had a thing around mess in the house and you do not make a mess. And they would freak out every time we made a mess in the house. And then our kid is walking through the house and they still glitter on the floor. And we just-
Meg Brunson
It had to be glitter.
Jen Lumanlan
Yes. It couldn't have been anything else. It would have been easy to sweep or easy to vacuum. It had to be glitter that, you know, you're living in for the next six months and you just lose it. And so, of course, it seems like if your child would just be more careful, then you wouldn't have needed to have this reaction. But actually, where this came from is that old hurt, that old memory of the way your parent or caregiver reacted to you when you did something like making a mess and, of course, making a mess is one example. These kinds of traumas come up in so many different areas of our lives with the parents that I work with, I've heard from parents who their parent would say, stop being lazy. Just come along and walk. And now when their child refuses to walk, they have the explosion. Or another parent whenever their child today says, "mom, mom, mom...", anything that is remotely needy, because this parent was taught, never be needy. It's not okay to be needy. You need to be self sufficient. You can't rely on anybody else. And so as soon as her child exhibits something that looks even remotely like neediness, that triggered, that old trauma is triggered in her that is not healed.
Jen Lumanlan
And, of course, she has a huge reaction to her child just saying, mom three times in a row.
Meg Brunson
And I'm curious. So I feel like in my head, there's two ways that you can kind of react to the things that your parents did for you. You either do the same thing or you do the opposite thing. Do you know what I mean?
Jen Lumanlan
Yes.
Meg Brunson
Is it more common to do one of those things than the other? Like, I remember instances growing up and this is not meant to be a Slam against my parents or anything like that. But I remember instances where I'd be like, "when I grow up, I will never do that to my children." And there are some things now that I purposely and intentionally do not approach in the same way that they were approached with me. So I guess I'm just curious, like, what makes sometimes you do the exact same thing that your parents did to you and what makes you do the opposite? Does that make sense?
Jen Lumanlan
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It's funny you mentioned actually, I sort of developed a theory about that myself. I think in my teenage years, long before I was even remotely interested in having children, that generationally we must sort of pendulum back and forth between the two in reaction to what our parents did. And each time saying, oh, I'm never doing that well, I'm never doing that well, I'm never doing that. And we just go back and forth from one side to the other. And I think which way you end up going depends a lot on your temperament, your personality, on what was modeled for you and how scary that was for you, on what your coping mechanisms were and whether your coping mechanism was to try to fight back, as it were, to stand up or whether your coping mechanism was to sort of get into the shell and hide or to run away or to placate. I've worked with parents who say that when they were five years old and their own parents were in the middle of really big conflagrations. This parent I'm working with would bring everybody cups of tea to try and smooth things over, and they're like five years old bringing everybody cups of tea to try and smooth things over.
Jen Lumanlan
So there's a lot of different factors involved. But I think the key part that we're talking about here is whichever one of those two things you're doing, you're reacting. You're reacting to something that has come before. You're not healed. You're not responding. You're not choosing how to interact with your child from a place that's aligned with your values. And that's ultimately where we want to be going towards, so that we're not reacting to something and either saying in the moment my parents exploded at me and the only thing I know how to do is explode or my parents exploded at me, and the only thing I don't know how to do is placate you and make sure everything's okay. But we're actually saying what's really important to me here. What are my values here in this relationship with my child, and what can I do to, in those difficult moments, be able to try to connect with those values and respond from a place that's aligned with those values, rather than whichever side of the pendulum we're sort of naturally gravitating towards.
Meg Brunson
And that all makes total sense to me. And I'm just thinking in my own family, like, the most conflict is with my oldest daughter, who I think is because she's the most like me. So we kind of-
Jen Lumanlan
Funny that, isn't it?
Jen Lumanlan
Yeah. And all the things you were punished for doing when you were a child, she's now doing. And that hurts.
Meg Brunson
I think, with that, the biggest issue for me is that when she does something, anything, it's that reaction, right? It's like instant. I feel like sometimes the reaction happens so instantly that you can't stop it from happening. And so is there a strategy for, like, I don't know, taking a deep breath? I feel like that sounds so easy right now. It sounds so easy.
Jen Lumanlan
Yeah.
Meg Brunson
But what is the strategy for putting some space in between the action of your child and your knee jerk reaction?
Jen Lumanlan
Yeah, that's such a great question, because that's exactly what to focus on, because it's in that space that you get to make a decision, that you get to decide how to respond based on your values instead of just reacting. And so I think the typical pattern that parents tend to fall into is, well, I know I need to take a deep breath and I know I need to pause, and I didn't do it again. If I know this, why can't I just do it, right? I have the knowledge. Our culture says if you have the knowledge, then all you need to add is enough willpower and you'll be able to make the change. And so if you haven't been able to make the change, then clearly your willpower is the thing that's the fault here. And that's your fault. And so self flagellation kicks in and the guilt and the shame of why is it always like this? Why can't I make this different? And so it's sort of this really bad spiral that we get into when we do this over and over again. And so I actually teach a workshop on taming your triggers.
Jen Lumanlan
And one of the big things that we work on is creating that pause because that pause is really where the magic happens. And what I typically see is I see parents when they start to focus on this, they go through a number of phases. Firstly, they're in the phase where you are, where you are looking back at an event that happened, and you're thinking, I should have done that differently. The whip comes out and you think, Why can't I do this? And then if you keep focusing on that, what you will find is the next phase you'll probably go through is you'll see it happening in the moment, and you'll think, I know I need to create a pause here, but it's not going to happen. And I'm going to say the thing I'm going to say anyway, and it's going to be really bad. You might even have an out of body experience. I've talked to parents who are like, I can see myself saying it. And I know that in ten minutes I'm going to be apologizing, but I can't stop myself. And so that can be a sort of a discouraging phase.
Jen Lumanlan
And you keep focusing on it in the difficult moment, taking a deep breath, putting a hand on a heart, doing something that feels nourishing and creating a moment of space. And then it comes. At first it's so tiny that it's almost not even enough to make any kind of decision. And then you keep focusing on it. Keep focusing on it. It gets a little bit longer, a little bit longer. And that creates the moment that you need to make that decision. And so there's a lot of different tools you can use to do that. There's mantras that you can stick on the fridge to remind yourself. A lot of parents I work with actually like to put a hair tie around one wrist and then that's sort of a visual reminder. And then in the moment that their child says something, they grab hold of the hair tie, take it off one wrist, and put it on the other wrist. It takes four or 5 seconds to do that. And there's your pause, right. That connects you with your intention. My intention is how I want to show up in my relationship with my child.
Jen Lumanlan
You've got your pause, you've taken a deep breath, and then you can say what's true for you. You're not squashing it down. "I'm fine. That wasn't irritating to me at all." Through gritted teeth. You can say, "I'm Super frustrated right now" and be really honest about that, but you're coming at it from a place of this is what's true for me, not why did you do that thing? Right.
Meg Brunson
So talking about your feelings rather than projecting what you think.
Jen Lumanlan
Yes. And of course, then you're going to go into the whole conversation that you can have from there about what was happening here and why was the child doing this thing. And chances are it was for some reason that you didn't even realize it was a thing for them. And then you can share what was going on for you. But all of that comes from having created the pause and you're never going to do it perfectly. And I'm going to confess, last night I screwed up. I had 6 hours of back to back recordings and interviews. And then I had to go grocery shopping and pick her up from school. And she was having a hard time and she wanted to watch video games. And then I asked her to turn off the video games and she said, okay, Where's my dinner? And I'm like, "for real?" Yeah. I had a moment where I'm not a Yeller, but I said firmly, "for real." And she was upset. And we had a difficult moment and I was not able to connect with my values in that moment because what we call the window of tolerance was really narrow.
Jen Lumanlan
I'd had so many other things going on that day, but my window of tolerance for her behavior was really narrow. If I had maybe scheduled fewer things that day or had asked my husband to go grocery shopping instead of having me do it, then I would have been able to widen my window of tolerance and respond to her. So lesson learned from me, right? It's my behavior that needs to change. Yes, we can talk about helping other people instead of demanding dinner at the moment your video games are over. We can have that conversation, too, and we will. But there's a lot that I can do about this situation that would have made it better.
Meg Brunson
And I appreciate that example because I think when I'm thinking about my triggers and my behaviors that need to be changed, I'm thinking about the extreme, and I don't want to make it sound worse than it is. Right. But like the shouting or the screaming. And I'm not really thinking about the eye roll that I make that my kids see and perceive. And that is just as misaligned with my values as raising my voice. So I appreciate that example because I think it makes me realize that it's not just the extremes that I was initially thinking of. Can we talk a little bit, maybe, about what some of those other reactions might be that we are- and not just as parents. Right. But just as humans. I feel like it's a human thing that we typically might do that could be benefited by...
Jen Lumanlan
And you mention eye rolls because we hate it when our kids roll their eyes at us. Right.
Meg Brunson
But somehow we still do it.
Jen Lumanlan
Yeah, exactly. So that there are four main patterns of behavior that parents tend to fall into when they are feeling triggered. And the first of those is fight. That's when maybe you're a Yeller, you're exploding. You might even sort of swat or spank your child. There's very much a big physical presence here for them, whether that's expressed verbally or expressed physically. So that's the fight.
Jen Lumanlan
Then there's the flight where you leave as fast as possible. And there are plenty of parents who do that, too. And that can be physically leaving the room or mentally and emotionally leaving the room and just kind of checking out because it's not safe to be here. If you think back to your own childhood and the interactions you had with your parents or caregivers, then it wasn't safe to be fully present in that interaction with them. And so your mind went somewhere else, even if your body- wasn't acceptable for your body to go somewhere else. So the flight.
Jen Lumanlan
Then there's freezing, which is when it's like deer in the headlights. I can't move. I can't make any decision. I can't do anything. Some people describe it as almost like having a foot on the brake and the accelerator at the same time, like everything's spinning and the tension is ramping up, but nothing's moving.
Jen Lumanlan
And then the final one is the fawn. And we typically see that in parents who have experienced pretty bad abuse or trauma. And that pattern comes up when you are trying to get the abuser to stop doing the thing. And so you tell them anything that you think they want to hear to make that stop. And so then we see that showing up in relationships with children, when our children cry or scream, it's like, "okay, wait, whatever you want. I'll get the ice cream. Just stop crying. It's okay." And so we try to placate them to make their feelings better so that we then don't have to feel those difficult feelings. That's typically the way that we see it show up. And of course, there's variation in each of those as well in terms of severity, in the types of things that parents actually do.
Meg Brunson
Sure. And the same strategy of giving that pause to allow you to regroup would work in all of the situations?
Jen Lumanlan
Yes, it really does. And what it does is allows you to do what psychologists call reappraise, which means to take another look at the situation and to assess what's really happening here. I think that when we have these big reactions, when we're early to the journey of learning about it, we know we're not supposed to do it right. We know we're not supposed to show up in our relationships with our children this way. But here we are having these big feelings. And so the thing that we think we must need to do is to stuff that down is to just kind of put it away somewhere and pretend that it's not there and not really deal with it as we have not dealt with it for the rest of our lives, when actually if we can take that pause and reappraise the situation, what we'll probably find is that we can see it from a different perspective. I don't know. I have a vase that has been in my family for a long time, and it's delicate and it's not expensive, but it has a lot of sentimental value to me. And this has not happened.
Jen Lumanlan
It's just a made up example. Maybe my daughter knocks it over and it breaks, and my narrative immediately goes to you're so careless, and I told you a million times not to touch it. And what were you thinking? And anything else my parent would have said to me if I had broken something important to them. And then maybe we can pause and take a breath and we can see what was actually going on for the child. Were they super excited about something that's happening in the house that day? Were they even coming to bring us a cup of tea? And they were so focused on the cup of tea, that they didn't see how close they were to the vase, and it was an accident that could have happened to anybody. And so that reappraisal helps us to see what's actually here, not what are the stories am I telling about how careless my child is and how that connects to the trauma that I've experienced? But what's really here? And then we can be honest about what's here for us. Again, you don't have to say, oh, yeah, that's fine. It didn't mean that much to me.
Jen Lumanlan
We can say, oh, my goodness, I'm so sad, and I'm so disappointed. That was really important to me. And then maybe our child will offer to help clean it up, or maybe there's something we can do together that will help me to connect with things that are important to me and my family. Like we could look at pictures together, family pictures or something, so that this is not the only thing that's connecting me to my family history. So that's what that moment of reappraisal can do for us.
Meg Brunson
And now, on the flip side of things, we can't change the past, right? If we're aware that we messed up and it's too late for the pause, like the trigger has already occurred, the damage has already been done, whether it's an eye roll or raising the voice or- what's the next step. And does it matter how old your kids are? Because it's the other thing. I'm coming at this in my mind with my 14 year old in mind because I love her to death. But I feel like she's the one right now who just requires the most guidance. But I also know I have a six year old, and it wasn't long ago that she was three. And at those ages, you can't have the same conversations necessarily.
Jen Lumanlan
Yeah, you can't have the same conversations, but you can have similar kinds of conversations. So let's look at how that would play out at those two different ages then. Right. The opposite end of the spectrum. So let's say that your three year old had broken something that was really important to you and you exploded, you yelled at them, and then afterwards you realize, yeah, that didn't go well. Then we want to address it. If the child is still upset right now and we have been able to reregulate ourselves, then I would say it's okay to address it now. If you feel as though you can if you're still completely emotionally disregulated, then I would say now is not the moment to address that, comfort the child if necessary, and just kind of move on for a little bit. And then when everybody's reregulated and had something to eat and you're not tired and you're not under pressure to get dinner ready or whatever else is going on in your life, you could say something like, we had a really hard time earlier, didn't we? Would it be okay if we talk about it for a minute and then assuming they say yes, you can just kind of start telling the story of what happened.
Jen Lumanlan
And the reason that this is important is when we mess up, there's a real tendency to want to hide it, to pretend it didn't happen. Maybe if I don't say anything, they just won't remember. But we remember, right? We remember when our parents blew up at us. We don't remember what the thing was we did, but we remember when they blew up at us. And so what we're doing is we're working on integrating the memories so that it doesn't become this flagship memory of our child, of our child in their adult life. So we're starting this conversation, and we're saying something like, oh, my goodness, it seemed as though we were doing okay. And then I was in the other room, and I heard this big crash, and then I came in and the vase was on the floor and what was going on? And then we can allow space for our child to tell their part of the story. So maybe there was something we don't even know about that they were trying to do. And if not, we can prompt them along a bit. Oh, okay. So you were running from here to here, and did you not see the vase or did you forget it was there, or your elbow was sticking out?
Jen Lumanlan
So you're sort of helping them to tell their part of the story, and then you're being honest about it. I was so frustrated because that vase is really important to me, and I'm really disappointed that it's broken and just allow that to be, right. You don't have to rub it in or teach them a lesson about being more careful. The lesson is there they see your genuine disappointment, and then, well, what can we do to work on repairing this? The vase is gone. We can't mend it, and I'm really disappointed about that, but, well, it was important to me because our family is important to me, and I wanted you to have it one day. And I wonder maybe we could do something together that helps us both to see how important our family is to us. Did you want to go and look at some family pictures together? And we can tell stories about our family, and maybe even I could write some of the stories down of the things that we remember. Right. So that my need. The need that I was trying to meet through keeping the vase is keeping family traditions alive and showing the importance of our family.
Jen Lumanlan
And I'm still meeting that need in a different way. So does that make sense from the three year old perspective?
Meg Brunson
It does.
Jen Lumanlan
Okay. And so we're providing as much of the story as we need to, to invite them into this process, but allowing them to tell their part of it to the extent that they can. And the more you do this, you're not trying to invent reasons to repair with them, but the more often you do this, the more they're able to do it. With a 14 year old, the process is similar. Obviously, the words you're going to use are different. You could still start with, we had a really freaking hard time this morning, didn't we? Would it be okay if we talk about that? And you're asking their permission. You're not saying we're going to talk about this now. We're inviting them into this conversation and we have to be. Just as with a three year old, we have to be willing to accept no as an answer. And if they don't want to talk about it, then that's okay. It's an invitation to talk about it. And then really coming from a place of vulnerability from our perspective, we even practiced this vulnerability with my child when she was really, really young, which is incredibly- I find it really empowering.
Jen Lumanlan
I think most parents sort of feel as though they have to have this veneer of I've got it all together and I know what I'm doing. Whereas when you tell your child, I'm making this up as I go along and I'm doing the best I can, then it sort of invites them into this process of figuring out together, how are we going to be together in this relationship, rather than I have all the answers and I'm going to tell you how it's going to be. So that conversation with a 14 year old might go something like, I mean, do you want to give me an example of an issue you're having with a 14 year old so we can make it more real?
Meg Brunson
Sure. Not doing her one super easy chore of the day.
Jen Lumanlan
Okay. Sure. And what's the chore?
Meg Brunson
Dishes. Lunch dishes specifically.
Jen Lumanlan
Okay, super. All right. So then I could go something like, hey, would you mind if we talk for a minute about chores? And you can reassure I'm not going to get on your case about it. I would like to have a conversation with you where we can figure out why it's hard for you to do this and why it's important to me and see if we can figure out something that works for both of us. Is that okay? And so assuming they say yes, you could say something like, I've noticed that you have a really hard time doing the dishes, and it's something that I've asked you to do. And I'm really curious about why it's difficult for you what's going on for you when you're doing the dishes. And so what you're listening for is how they're feeling about it. Are they feeling like it's taking them away from something else they'd rather be doing at that time? Or it's boring? Or whatever it is? There could be 15 things that are going on for them that they're feeling in that moment. Okay, what's going on for me here? Well, it's important for me to feel as though I'm not the only one doing all the work in the family here, or I have regular meetings from twelve to two and I don't have time to do the dishes.
Jen Lumanlan
So what's true for me here? And then from there, what paths do we have that potentially could meet both of our needs? And this is going to vary depending on what each of our needs are. So if my need is to feel as though I'm not the only one carrying the weight of the family, there is a hundred different ways that this child could help to reduce some of that burden on me, to help us feel as though we're part of a team. One of those ways is dishes. They're putting the trash out, making beds, cleaning, a whole host of things that may be more acceptable, maybe less boring. Maybe they could listen to a podcast to make that chore less boring. So we're approaching it from a perspective of how can I help my child meet whatever need they have articulated as to why they're struggling to do the dishes, and is it even necessary to do the dishes? Would it be helpful to me, just as helpful in terms of meeting my need of not carrying the entire weight of the family if they did some other chore that's more acceptable to them?
Jen Lumanlan
How do you think they would respond to a conversation like that?
Meg Brunson
I think, in most cases she's like a very tune-out person. So I feel like that's the tough part for me is getting her to care about the conversation we're having. And that being said, I'm also fully aware that I am passing judgment on the way she is participating in the conversation, like you talked about. I can't remember which example it was. Maybe flight, right. Whereas she's there physically, but I feel like she's not with me. I also know the times that she's most likely to open up. So, I mean, there's definitely strategies like I could take her on a drive. You know what I mean? There's definitely ways in which we communicate easier, but I feel like it goes into like another struggle I have is that I feel like she's tuning out when I'm trying to have serious conversations with her.
Jen Lumanlan
Why is she tuning out?
Meg Brunson
And here's- I think it's just because she doesn't want to face it.
Jen Lumanlan
I would hypothesize, it's because she is worried she's going to get steamrolled into doing something she doesn't want to do.
Meg Brunson
And that makes sense too.
Jen Lumanlan
Yeah. And so the best strategy we have, right, is our parent is older, has the money, has the power, our parent can basically make us do whatever they want us to do. And the only tool we have is resistance. Right. And as a two year old, three year old, that looks like a tantrum, that looks like, "no, I don't want to do this" as a 14 year old that looks like mentally and emotionally leaving the room. And so that's a protective strategy that she's using to say, if I'm not here, then this isn't really affecting me. Instead of being fully emotionally present in this relationship, the challenge here is to invite her into this conversation. And I think dishes is actually a decent place to start, unless it is something that's so emotionally charged for you at this point. In that case, I would say let's not do dishes, but this just seems as though it's probably something that's sort of irritating to you, but it's not like the end of the world kind of scenario. So I think it's actually a really good opportunity to give her some practice in understanding her needs and your needs and saying if we can find a way to meet my need.
Jen Lumanlan
And I'm assuming, of course, that your need is to not carry the entire load of the family. If you have other needs related to like, I have to come in at 02:00 and the dishes need to be done because- then a strategy of having your child take out the trash is not going to meet that need. Right. So it relies on you having articulated your need and me having guessed that correctly, as you not wanting to carry the entire load and understanding her need of not wanting to be bored or wanting to have some say in what happens in the family. Well, we can meet those needs. Those are not mutually exclusive. There are ways that you can support the family and help me to meet my need while we also meet your need. And if she can see that, whenever she has an idea that can meet both people's needs or together, you can create an idea that meets both people's needs, that you will grab that and say, yes, let's do that. The more she's going to know that you want to hear her ideas, that you're invested in her having her needs met, and then she wants to participate in these discussions with you, it becomes something that it's like, well, yeah, I want to have this conversation because I want to get my needs met and I know you're going to help me try and do it rather than it doesn't matter what I say, mom's going to make me wash the dishes and so I'm just going to sit here and at the end, the end result is going to be the same no matter what I say.
Jen Lumanlan
So I'm not going to say anything. Right. We have to open ourselves to the possibility that the thing we've been asking the child to do to wash the dishes may not be the ultimate solution that meets both of our needs. And if we can open ourselves with that possibility, then our child wants to participate because they know we're trying to meet their needs.
Meg Brunson
And it would seem that as these conversations happen, it's also like bringing it full circle, allowing that space to be there. It just snowballs. But in a good way.
Jen Lumanlan
You're exactly right. Yes.
Jen Lumanlan
Instead of getting in the negative spiral, you're getting in the positive spiral because more of our needs are being met more of the time. And when your needs are met more of the time, your window of tolerance is wider. And then you have the space to be able to pause even when your child rolls their eyes or does something that would normally have sent you over the edge. When you have that basis, that relationship that's grounded in meeting most people's needs, most of the time you find yourself in a place where you can pause, you can take that breath, and you can say, I am feeling super frustrated right now and have them say, me too. And then maybe you make a conscious decision to say, can we take a five minute break and then come back again? Or I want to feel like we're on the same team right now. Can we just have a hug? Right.
Jen Lumanlan
And from there, it's not like we're excusing whatever was the behavior that they just did. And that that's not an issue that needs to be dealt with. Maybe it is, or maybe we've reappraised and we're like, yeah, that pressed my buttons and that's my thing to deal with. That's not necessarily their behavior that needs to change. But yes, absolutely. When more of our needs are met, more of the time, we get to be on that positive cycle where more often we are able to respond to a child from a place that's connected to their values.
Meg Brunson
And I know you mentioned earlier that you have a workshop. Right on Taming your Triggers, because I feel like this podcast episode has been great, but it's not going to be the cure all. Do you know what I mean?
Meg Brunson
It's just not going to be the cure all. This is going to take a little more work than a 30 minutes, 40 minutes podcast can give us. So can you tell me a little bit about what that workshop looks like and how you can continue to support parents as we go through this process?
Jen Lumanlan
Yeah. And there's a reason for that. Right. Because what we talked about earlier, the knowledge plus willpower equals change. If that was all it took, then I've basically given you what you need. But the problem is it's really difficult to go from the knowledge in our heads to actually taking on an idea and living it in our bodies. That takes time. That takes a lot of support. That takes hearing from people who are processing things in their own ways and asking questions and thinking, oh, I didn't even know I had that question. And other people in the community with you answering that. And then it processes them more. And what often happens in the parents I work with is they experience what's called a noncognitive shift, which means I didn't suddenly convince myself that this is how I want to respond to my child. But in some ways, something about how I'm showing up in the situation is just different. I'm not reciting a script anymore. I'm not trying to pretend that I'm not angry. It's just the pause is there and it wasn't there before. And that's the non cognitive shift that's happened in our bodies.
Jen Lumanlan
And so that's what we really work on in the workshop. It's ten weeks. It starts on February 28, and the registration's open between February 13 and 23rd. And then we start on the 28th of 2022, and we work on it for ten weeks together, and we actually alternate the content that we work on. So every other week we look at what are the causes of your triggers? Where did this stuff come from so that you can understand it better and we help you to process it not just in your brain, but also in your body. And then every other week we look at the tools that you are going to be using differently to show up in your relationship with your child so that you can get practice using those through the duration. And also you don't get bogged down in figuring- in spending weeks and weeks and weeks understanding all the mucky stuff before you get to the tools you actually get to practice alongside. So it's ten weeks long and you get invited to a community of parents. And the first revelation that parents have when they join this workshop is when they come into the community and they see hundreds of parents introducing themselves and saying all the things they find triggering about their children's behavior and the intentions that they're showing up with to do things differently.
Jen Lumanlan
And they realize, I am not alone. It is not just me that has not figured this out. And that's an enormous relief for many parents. And so we go through and we discuss the materials, and you get the option to be paired up with what we call an AccountaBuddy so that you can be held gently accountable for staying up to date with the content. So when your brain looks at the homework one week and think, oh, that's kind of scary. I'm going to put that off until tomorrow, and then you put it off the next week, and then you fall behind and then you're like, oh, but now I'm behind and I can't ask a question about last week's content because we moved on and I should probably just let this slide and I'm not going to deal with anymore. Your AccountaBuddy is the person who's going to say, this is important, and it doesn't matter what week of the content we're in, and let's hold ourselves accountable gently together to create a nurturing environment that we can both thrive in. And what we find is that parents who have that support structure in place stick with it.
Jen Lumanlan
And they really see the kinds of changes that they want to make in their lives, and they show up differently in their relationships with their families than they were able to before.
Meg Brunson
Thank you so much. And I love how you talked about alternating. I think it's also really important for me, and I can't be alone in this. I don't feel like I had a traumatic childhood. It was not perfect. No. But I wouldn't call it traumatic. But I know that there are still influences from my childhood that have caused me to be the type of person I am, the type of parent I am. So I like how you have alternated that and you're going to look at the generational root of the "problem." And I'm using problem in air quotes- of the thing that needs to be changed. I love how that sounds. And I know for myself as a FamilyPreneur, our families and our businesses are so intertwined.
Jen Lumanlan
Yes, they are.
Meg Brunson
If things are off in the family, it's going to reflect in your business, it's going to play a role in your business. The same way, if things are not going well in business, it can cause you to be more likely to be triggered by your family. So I know that by becoming a stronger parent, by opening up the communication with your children. And we didn't even talk about significant others, spouses and things like that- because that's the other piece. Right. Is getting them on board. Everybody has to be on board.
Jen Lumanlan
Yeah. I want to address what you said about not having experienced trauma. Yes. Even though you may have not experienced what psychologists call it, a big T or little T trauma, which is the really big stuff, or even divorce and poverty, the conditions that can accompany poverty in our culture. And for those of you who are listening, I gave an eye roll there. We still experience trauma. Right. When our parents said things to us like, oh, I know you love art, but art is never going to pay the bills. So do your homework and get a real job. Right. That's the trauma of capitalism showing up in our lives and that impacted us. And maybe we feel, oh, I shouldn't be creative. Being creative isn't a real thing. Right. It can never be a real job. It's something that's just for fun. Or if our parents said to us, Are you sure you want to eat that? You're getting a little chubby, right? That's white supremacy showing up, and the idealized body image. And they were doing the best they could to protect us in these environments. Right. But they were trying to set us up for success, and yet that traumatized us.
Jen Lumanlan
I think it's super important that even if a parent is looking back thinking, well, I've got nothing to complain about. I didn't experience any big trauma. Yes, we did. Just by living in this culture, we experienced trauma and so there's a lot that we can do to heal from that trauma.
Meg Brunson
And then we need to learn what that all was.
Jen Lumanlan
Yes.
Meg Brunson
It may not be obvious.
Jen Lumanlan
And then heal from it. Yeah. Awesome.
Meg Brunson
Well, thank you so much. I will put the link for the workshop in the show notes so definitely make sure to go check that out. And where else can our listeners connect with you?
Jen Lumanlan
Yeah, everything that I do is on yourparentingmojo.com so we've got over, I think, 150 episodes of research based information for parents of children who are toddler years through about the end of elementary with interviews with experts on topics from growth mindset to grit to perfectionism. Each time we dig really deep into what does the scientific research say on this topic and how can we use that information to inform our parenting?
Meg Brunson
Thank you so much, Jen. Thanks for being here with us today and sharing so much information.
Jen Lumanlan
You're welcome, Meg. It was great to speak with you again.